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M14 stock options

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m14 stock options

In my seemingly never-ending quest to acquire long range rifles, I initially skipped over the. My first real distance rifle was my. More recently, I had the opportunity to pick up a. The problem is m14 shooting the. In some ways, the venerable M14 is a bit like the odd child in the otherwise happy family of mainline military weapons. It had a rather short lifetime as the main service rifle of U. One of the reasons for its abbreviated service was that it had been designed to fight an earlier kind of war. Unfortunately, pairing a full power. Besides its inaccurate full auto capability, three things bedeviled the M14 in the jungle warfare environment of Vietnam. First of all, in creating the M14, it seems that the weapons designers forgot some of the lessons they learned using the Garand in the jungle warfare environments. Lugging a rifle that big and heavy 44 inches and 11 lb. Second, the wooden stock had a tendency to warp in the humid Southeast Asia climate, impacting accuracy. Finally, the full size 7. Inthe Army organized its Operations Research Office. They charged it with reviewing battlefield reports from World War II and developing some conclusions and recommendations. Over the next few years, the office reviewed over three million such reports. One of their conclusions was that in war, most combat takes place at relatively short range. Troops would often encounter each other by surprise and the guys with the greater firepower tended to win the day. The ideal, therefore, was full auto capability and a lot of bullets that could be hosed in the general vicinity of your enemy. Its composite furniture made it more resistant to humidity. One being notably less lethality, due to the weaker 5. Switch it to semi-auto, put some decent glass and a good options on it, and you have yourself a options sniper rifle capable of engaging targets out to yards or more. This is due in large part to the change that is happening in sniper doctrine. While the bulk of military sniping work is still performed by bolt action rifles, in his book, The 21st Century Sniper: A Complete Practical Guideformer SEAL Sniper and developer of the current SEAL Sniper Training ProgramBrandon Webb makes the point that in the urban combat environment in which more battles are being fought, the ability of a sniper to acquire and engage multiple targets in rapid succession can mean the difference between life and death for the men in his unit. With this in mind, his contention is that military sniper doctrine is changing with respect to the weapons used, moving from the traditional bolt action to semi-automatic platforms such as the M14 and the FN SCAR Heavy. While there are excellent new semi-automatic sniper rifles being developed the aforementioned SCAR for examplethe U. Military still has a fair number of M14 variants in its arsenal. It was designed at a time when rifle accessories were largely limited to iron sights, the occasional scope, and a bayonet. Fortunately, something has been done. In the last few years a number of manufacturers have come to market with total conversion systems that take the guts of the M14 and bring it into the modern era of m14 rifles. As usual you tend to get what you pay for which is something to keep in mind if you decide to go down this road. Their EBR Enhanced Battle Rifle stock is favored by many military operators. Sage offers a number of different configurations of the EBR depending on mission, but they all follow the basic design of a forward rail set with an open top near the ejection port. The major differences are material choice, color, and butt stock selection. The EBR stock the standard M14 wooden stock and includes a Picatinny rail that runs along the top of the gun, a couple of shorter rails along the bottom and both sides, and a collapsible stock. While the EBR is a great replacement for the standard M14 stock, it falls a bit short in one area — optics mounting. Sage acknowledges this concern and offers an accessory cantilever sight base that mounts to the front Picatinny rail and extends a sight mount over the receiver to enable proper placement of a scope for long range work. As I started to investigate my stock replacement options, I looked at the EBR. The main thing that slowed me down, though, was lead time. Today, the delivery time horizon is more than three months. Fortunately, Desert Warrior Products has other M14 stock replacement options. I spent some time on the phone with Chris from DWP discussing what I wanted to do with my rifle. He suggested checking out the Troy M14 MCS system. Like Sage, Troy makes a number of different configurations, but these tend to be much more mission specific. You can buy a basic system, a Designated Marksman rig, or what I ended up with, the Semi-Auto Sniper System SASS. Then again, last time I checked, SCARs in. One of the biggest aggravations I have with my M1A is the thread pattern on the barrel. This can be a problem if, like me, you purchased a. Fortunately, the good people over at DeltaPDesign have a solution for you. The thread adapter mounts onto the M14 using the existing castle nut and locking screw. Fortunately, one came with the Springfield Armory muzzle compensator I bought last year. There are also some relatively inexpensive upgrades for the recoil system, all of which are available from DWP as well as some other places. These include a replacement piston that is designed to national match tolerances and a replacement stock spring guide, both from Sadlak Industries. The M14 pattern rifle is, at its options, an excellent weapon system. And with the range of upgrades available today, you can bring it into the 21st century. Meh…just get a tnvc stock cheek riser, sadlak scope mount and a nice scope. Everything else could just go to ammo or another gun. I tried the Troy system but ended up sending it back. Not a big fan of the gap between the trigger guard and pistol grip on the Troy. I Have a 2. What are u running for optics if u dont mind me asking? Leupold Mark 4, 3. It does the job well. My M1A is a loaded one with a stainless match barrel. The article got a couple of things wrong. The original M16s and M16A1s that replaced the M14s in front line service weighed about 7 lbs,… loaded. Big difference from the M It was the later M16A2 that changed to a heavy barrel that weighed 8. Early 55 grain ammo was plenty lethal. It was the later 62gr. This article is long enough to spend the time to get the small things right…. The article also forgot to mention a couple of things. All of these stocks add a massive a mount of weight to an already hefty rifle. The perfect stock already exists… the original synthetic GI stock. No wood to warp, cheap, strong, light. Why not even mention that? Original synthetic GI stock for what? The original stock issued on an M14 is a wood stock. The M16 was the first US service rifle issued standard with a synthetic stock. Iirc, they were produced and used by the navy after they inherited stockpiles of m14s when the m16 was phased in. You can buy these surplus GI fiberglass stocks from a lot of places. It looks sleek in your hands and like it is leaning forward and reaching for the target when shouldered. The M14 is just plain Sexy as it is. The M got canned because poor performance as a select fire m14 but the Army found out that spray and pray even at short ranges turned out to be bust and now soldiers seldom use automatic m14. The M was the best rifle in the world. It just took until to field. I have toyed with getting an M-1A for a long time but I am just not a fan of modern semiautomatic rifles. If I ever buy one it will be the original Garand. The AR came way to late to be a NATO rifle in the 50s. Early ARs had barrel rupturing problems well. But the M proved modular and its Euro cousins the FAL and G-3 did not. Reason SAS while having a few L1A1s are now using LMT ARs now. Germany is going with the HK piston AR replacing G-3s. The reason the Army went back to Ms is not only they had stockpiles left but also they found out AR based platforms in Afghanistan jammed too easily Ms the SEALs used did not. The L1A1 was gone by or so. We bought a batch of LMT rifles to use as the LA1 not just for SAS as an urgent operational requirement for Afghanistan, where we needed accurate semi-automatic fire in that annoying band where 5. Still proves the FAL and G-3 have options evolved and are not in use by any real world power. Its a great Designated Marksman Rifle as long as you dont go crazy and try to turn it into a bolt gun super sniper. The Army went for the M16 for a number of reasons. Some of the most powerful, were political and controversial — as in politicians swapping favors with financial supporters. Before the M14 you had a BAR, an M1, and an M1 carbine or grease gun in infantry squads. They wanted to turn them all into one gun. At the same time there were post WWII studies stating engagement ranges were typically shorter than most infantrymen reported. Additionally, NATO was pushing for a smaller ammunition. The Army wanted to keep the heavier ammunition and put the contract out for M1 replacement following Korea. FNFAL and another M1 descendant also competed. The other M1 descendant used no roller on the bolt, and dropped out of competition in the early stages. The FNFAL scored higher until the arctic competition, where its tighter tolerances rendered it unable to continue. But the fact is 7. Despite this, the M14 was reliable, powerful, and very popular with infantrymen in Vietnam. NATO still wanted a less expensive ammunition and continued to press for it there were exceptions among the NATO countries who preferred 7. In the AR the Army believed it could again unify all three functions, Rifle, Squad automatic weapon, and Carbine. Early issues were with the ammunition. The gas operated system of the AR was and is much more sensitive to powder quality. Additionally, the rifling on the original AR was such that beyond meters the bullet tumbled, creating great inaccuracy. This was by design — again citing the post WWII study. But tumbling rounds did produce wild stories of fantastic wounding capability. Reports from Vietnam caused the rifling turn rate on the A1 to be increased as engagement ranges, even in the jungle, were actually greater than the WWII study specified for open terrain. And finally, increased focus on CQB led the Army to develop the M4 in the s, because the inch M16 was cumbersome in that role. Ironically, the M14 is now the longest serving rifle ever fielded to the US Army. Special Forces units in the Army and USMC also retained the M14 as the m21 and M I was assigned each at various units. Compared to any AR variant the M14 suffers less from gas-induced carbon fouling. The loaded M14 is significantly heavier. Basic Rifle Marksmanship training of recruits or general soldiery using the M16 yielded slightly lower scores than returned with M14 equipped BRM trainees, historically. Personal experience training personnel around the world bears this out, but I have no explanation. Ditto for CQB and MOUT. Obviously, the M14 takes a lot more muscle to carry all day. Carrying an entire basic load on the M14 is even more demanding. The trade off with the ammunition is that it has much longer legs and delivers significantly more energy to target at all ranges relative to 5. I spent some time stock the militarytoted a m60 ,put her down on the bipod and she was fine. The idea was scotched because the powers-that-be in the army thought an expensive at the time box magazine would be too easy for ignoramus soldiers to lose options the battlefield and a protruding magazine would get in the way of hand movements for current weapons drills. Yes I did, it was the original design. You got it right about Army conservatism. Garand also proposed a smaller bore, something like a but the CoS Douglas MacArthur vetoed it as an economy move because of the huge inventories of remaining after WWI. For today, the SCAR H beats them all in terms of reduced recoil, accuracy, reliability, modularity, and cost. Not really the M EBR is far more durable than the SCAR H and has no crappy all plastic stock. Accuracy is same since EBR upgrade. We can argue on modularity. Recoil is smoother for the M than the SCAR due to its bolt rollers. I do know that the M14 EBR is pretty durable although the more modular stocks are more prone to breakage than the old walnut one. Accuracy is the same, although the SCAR can hold its zero far, far easier and retain its accuracy even when abused. I call BS on the M14 having smoother recoil. The SCAR H has recoil slightly heavier than the 5. I love the M14, dont get me wrong, but comparing the big three G3, FAL, M14the SCAR trumps every one in every category. No the M got high praise as unbreakable in Afghanistan while the SCAR and its plastic body can break easily. The M is like its bolt roller options it a smooth recoil over the snappy SCAR. As for accuracy read both can kill Taliban bad guys past a M-4s range but the M can do the same job as the SCAR and dont forget only a small number of SOCOM units have them. Most Solders have a M or M M14s are NOT unbreakable. Everybody knows the SCAR has less recoil. This is because the tappet-style gas system and mass density of the bolt carrier group allow the gas to expand m14 the proper momentum to dissipate even with the heavy recoil of the In the M14, you have a operating rod that slams the bolt back at a violent speed and impulse. No room or gas expansion whatsoever. The M14 m14 a MOA rifle. In order for it to obtain equivalent accuracy to the SCAR MOAthere needs to be modifications. Ask any gunsmith about what goes into modifying a M14 to be 1 MOA accurate. Its not as simple as having a out of the factory, free float SCAR H barrel. No the M14 doesnt have the same features. It doesnt have a folding stock, cannot change barrels, cannot mount accessories easy, and is not as light. A fine default DMR, but for a 21st century battle rifle? Many test experts and even possible SOCOM personnel showed the SCAR stock breaks too easily its cheap plastic stock is crap. I seen Ms drop but still fire more than accurately. The EBR upgrade makes the M have a free floating barrel so the Army fixed your FF Barrel need. Barrel change is a feature less used than advertised. Most operative dont change barrels at base little lone in the middle of combat thats weak sauce on arguments. Overall I know your a SCAR lover and hate all American guns that you think threatens its diveity in guns. Face it your SCAR isnt going anywhere. I feel like I am having deja vu all over again with this discussion. I think you guys were saying almost the same thing or something. If one were handed to me, I would really take the SCAR though, I aint to crazy about that knob going back and forth with each shot…. Where options i said otherwise? If you discount a rifle as faulty because of its stock, then you need to completely bin the AR Such logic is well…illogical. Take a finely tuned M14 and drop it. I promise it will be less accurate than it was before. You will most likely get a shift in POI. Dont ask me how I know. You are attacking a strawman. Nowhere did i imply that they change barrels in the middle of combat. Barrel changes are useful for maintenance or theatre specific load outs. Try changing a M14 barrel and tell me how enjoyable that experience is. Try cleaning a EBR sometime with a mounted scope. Let me know how enjoyable that is also. I wish a American manufacturer would design a weapon like the SCAR. They better put up or I wont buy. Pat, I dont like the reciprocating charging handle either. I try to think of it like the AKs or M14s charging handle. It is particularly meddlesome when you have mounted optics, but there is a solution to that from tangodown. Not true those are NOT FN upgrades but aftermarket addons which most in SOCOM cannot get. Overall the SCAR was a interesting idea but unneeded. I think it appears that SCAR rec. My dad and I have been debating whether we should get an M1A or a SCAR 17s for the first family rifle. Is there anyone with experience between the two rifles who would like to share their opinion? Is the SCAR really worth twice the price of an M1A? Scar is hair over 8lbs, which is m14 lighter than M1A. Not really the M-1A has better recoil more accurate and with upgrades just a modular. And its alot cheaper than your other pic. SCARs have been reported as being too flimsy, and a decent AR can be had for far less cash than it would take to properly upgrade a M1A. I prefer guns that can double as hammers should the need arise. SCAR, M1A, AR10 though Stock suppose you would have a choice as to which one. I think the AR10 though maybe a little more accurate is best used as a range gun. I guess you would have to decide its mission. I love my M1A…all the way. Essentially, take a remington sling plate, cut a usgi synthetic m14 stock at 15 degrees, jb weld the sling options on it, mount a coupling nut onto it, then use any remington tactical stock adapters you want. AR has more inherent accuracy than either. Of course I would love a Hi-Power almost as much as I would love a Para FAL if that is ambiguous I mean I would love it a lot, like, so much. I love FALs, and Hi-powers. That being said, or all the battle rifles, including the Scar 17 and Siga straight up walnut stock M14 is easily the first choice. To me, a proper battle rifle should get the maximum potential velocity out of the cartridge rules out the M4 and SOCOM 16 and be solid enough to properly whack a sucker upside his head rules out the AR and SCAR. It gives up a little bit to the AR 10 in accuracy, but arguably makes up for it in AKish reliability-with quality mags. Dead, stone-cold reliability from south pacific jungles to north-african deserts to corpse-freezing korean winter. The Garand action, which the M14 inherited just keeps running. The harsh conditions in World War II, where soldiers were often in the fight for extended periods without adequate time allocated for proper cleaning and lubrication, essentially turned many into single shot weapons. This was also true in Korea. The truth is that World War II demonstrated that even the finest weapons like your BARs and M1 Garands will inevitably stock in harsh conditions. The Russians know a thing or two about operating weapons in harsh conditions. I considered the synthetics, but ended up with an M21 instead. Sadlak, SEI and McCann I guess are the choice if you want to keep your rear irons. Not sure about the others but as long as the objective lens of your optic is not too big it works as far as letting you use the BUIS. No disrespect to the author of this post…. I always have to laugh at these analyses of …woops… vs the The Garand vs direct system like the AR. It was fine for removing dug in Japs from Tarawa, Germans from buildings across Europe and the recoil of the the REAL. The scuttle butt I got from the older brother in VietNam was when the AR failed time and again in its early years GIs begged for M14s. When the rubber met the road the M14 did its job. As for weight, well I am reminded of another story of the VN era. Guy assigned to hump gas on his back for the flame thrower always bitched. That is until the VC attempted to over run his firebase. Heard same thing about the BAR from WWII dad. Effectiveness trumps weight in spades. Soldiers realize this after first contact. Good on you though for loving on the M Check out LRB while your at it. They tried to make a M fire 5. This is using the M action not a mini crappy action. The premature push of the AR into frontline service is indeed a well documented and tragic aspect of its birth. My Dad was an 82nd Trooper, junped Sicily, Salarno, Normandy and Holland. He said you can shoot M1 one handed when you are scared shitless. His never acted up, even in the ice and cold of Belgum. Because of him I ended up with three of them,all match barrels, glass bedded etc. Got me to Master in Service Rifle, but when I switched to the AR in my first match I shot fifty points above my average. Mouse gun does not rock your point of aim like Garand does. I have an M1a but the Garand just lays more naturally for me. FN guarantees 1 moa out of the box and they deliver. I put in stock match grade reloads and was averaging around. I have an M1A and love it but I find the FNAR far more ergonomic and easier to shoot. FN includes several different size combs. The magazines are a bit heavy but built like tanks. Seriously you could pound nails with them. Downsides are no iron sights. If you want them you have to take it to a gunsmith. The another downside is there are almost no magazines though everything is out of stock lately. I gather that the stock from a BAR fits with little to no m14. A M1A is also a good choice. If you have enough for a Super match you might as well get a SCAR. A telltale giveaway is the lack of options little humpback the BAR has right behind the ejection port. Last fall, I was taking my first steps into the firearms world. Just going to have to be patient and wait for prices to go down… and my income to go up. Not a single mention of the JAE? Anyone with experience with both the JAE and the Troy? Or maybe even the el-cheapo Archangel? Thanks for posting, timing is perfect — have a loaded M1A awaiting a similar SASS fate! I was surprised myself. I know its out of most peoples price range, but its definitely worth he mention. Have to use a pad of some sort to raise stock cheek weld though since the scope mounts relatively high. Love my Sage EBR, the thing is a beast, no other rifle has snatched my interest the way the Sage EBR has. Looking forward to it. I actually prefer D. Seeing those poor sad rifles forced stock wear black plastic just broke my heart. I did a camo stock on mine options it looks great. It you bed the action, and do a trigger job, you can greatly improve the accuracy. Sadlak and Fulton both have nice upgrades at reasonable prices scope mounts, NM piston, Pic rails. While the AR platform is lighter and more maneuverable, there is nothing like having a mag full of 7. My old man carried the M14 all through USMC boot camp and for a good portion of his tour and a half in Vietnam. He simply loves the firearm, the. A few years ago he decided that despite the cost it was time to acquire the rifle that he was trained on and fought with overseas, sans fully auto switch. When he bought the M1A there were no woodstock rifles available, only the plastic versions, he bought it anyway. I will admit that I was surprised how much the rifle weighed with a 20 round mag loaded, she is a beast! I thought about humping that thing around all day long and my arms and shoulders started hurting just at the thought. What also struck me is that never once did my father ever tell me or complain to me about the weight of the in all the years he spoke about the rifle. I guess one of the other posters said it best that the effectiveness trumped the weight for my father, he knew it was a battle ready rifle that he could put his life on. After more than two or three dozen rounds, many people start to develop a flinch. Anyone can develop a flinch if you beat on them hard enough, long enough. I developed a flinch one weekend by shooting over 80 rounds of. After about 20 rounds, most people are begging for mercy — and some of these people are shooting much heavier loads out of things like a. Too light a rifle can result in a vicious recoil impulse. The Garand, at about 9. Now put that M2 ball ammo in a rifle that weighs, oh, 7 lbs. Every now and then I think about taking one of the modern 7. But I think to get the full power out of the cartridge with a gr projectile you need more overall length than the original dimensions of a 7. Then the modifications get too complicated in my head and I drop the idea until someone mentions 6. From and later, the M1A was available in 7mm These M1A rifles were sold in the United States and in countries where civilians were prohibited from owning military compatible ammunition, e. For example, Super Match M1A serial number was custom built in by Springfield Armory, Inc. It had a Hart 7mm heavyweight barrel and the receiver was rear options. M1A rifles exported to Spain are chambered for. Better ammo exists or could be designed, but who exactly is going to pay the millions to re-tool Lake City to make it? Even in flush times, that was a non-starter. So much stock, so much problems that we would encounter in the 21st century that could have been solved back in the 30s. Im with ya though. There is a smart way to overcome the non productive dualism of 5. Well, there was a candidate for the new NATO cartridge that would throw a. With the M1 in the snow, wind and rain all traveling about 50 miles an hour from all sides, on a Georgia firing range inrecoil was not the problem. Low crawling back up to the firing line thru the stock was a little tiring. Check Mate Industries C. With the lone exception of the Springfield M rifle, the M14 rifle remains the longest serving rifle used by units of U. The accuracy acceptance criteria for the M14EBR-RI was a maximum of 1. Gotta love an m Makes you wonder if it will be the first true hybrid to take on the positions options a CQB rifle and a DMR at the same time with that bull-pup configuration. No mention of J. Seems like one of the best albeit expensive stocks out there. The SAGE EBR chassis system is rock solid and there are stock few proven methods of mounting traditional optics including a Smith Enterprise mount specific top rail requiredthe M14DCSB from SAGE TACOM M14EBR-RIa cantilever optic rail from LaRue Tactical CRANE MK14 Mod 1 and EBR rings from Badger Ordnance CRANE MK14 Mod 0. This chassis is supper light and it offers users a few different methods to mount optics. That was supposed to be the infantry squad BAR replacement. It was basically an M with selector switch for FA option, a heavier barrel, and a bipod. They told us to expect them, but they never arrived. When we heard about the M starting to come on line they told us it was a lightweight. We all thought it was a joke—a. With the lone exception of the Springfield M rifle, the M14 rifle remains the longest serving rifle used by units of the U. What a bunch of girls. M1a is a grate rifle. Before that it was A2 and base plate for 60mm mortar. I loved all the comments. My father in law is a D day survivor, battle field commissioned on D day. Never heard him bitch about his m1 garand being too heavy. Right tool the for right job. Said when he got to the Nam they issued him a MA1, and he hated that mattel plastic gun. He went with a M and never looked back at the M M14 most guys in his platoon dad was a platoon sergeat E-6 hated the M and carried Ms or AKs, and even Thompson Sub Machine Guns. Dad claimed some nitwit in Washington McNamara bosted the 16 didnt need cleaning it was a self cleaning weapon, and never issued cleaning kits, saw many G. Why he said troops loved AKs and M, Dad claims you could kick the m14 shut and it would fire all day, not so with the M Politicians never go to war so what do they know, ask the troops its them in harms way. And yes both my Granddads in WW2 carried Garands, maybe we are softer today. The options sets up the chassis to suit his, or her individual needs. Blackfeather optic mounting solutions work with GI profile stocks including the E2… http: There were stories that the SCAR H is hard on optics. Any comments on this? I have a SCAR 16 in 5. Suprised no one mentioned the M1 carbine of which over 5 million were built. Many were shipped to Korea and Vietnam as there were plenty of them and were thought to be more suited to the smaller asians. Back in the 60s, we did not accessorize our rifles. We did not have m14 armor, moving fast was of paramount importance. We traveled as light as we could, every second we were in the kill zone life expectancy became shorter. We went where trucks, APCs, tanks and planes never saw the light of day, artillery was a distant hope. No bells and whistles, and still be just as deadly if it comes to a fight. I an a proud owner of an M1A Scout Squad and I love the rifle, it prints at about 1. Keep up the fire. The new Mossberg butt stock adapter is now included with every Blackfeather RS imported into the USA. Your email address will not be published. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email. Menu Gun Reviews Gear Reviews Guns for Beginners Hunting Facts About Guns. March 3, comments. March 3, at March 4, at March 5, at The first picture with that beautiful wood stock was perfect. August 10, at Huge fan of these guns. Thanks for the post. Lance, The L1A1 was gone by or so. March 12, at Imagine American soldiers going into with m14 semiauto rifles. The AR10 would have been a far better rifle. Its barrel rupture problem on testing was due stock stupidity rather than a design limitation. March 6, at March 7, at This is a pdf depicting my latest m1a stock modification. With synthetic stock, M1a is less than 9lbs and it wont warp. M1 Grands arent as foolproof reliable as people think and certainly m14 more than AKs. Might want to check out the blackfeather stock and the choate folder as well. I likes wood, I does. Of course co-witness is a non-starter with the platform. July 20, at Not a good situation. August 22, at Also, you might not like shopping for July 21, at August 8, at October 1, at April 7, at July 30, at August 24, at September 28, at September 29, at December 17, at June 7, at June 9, at January 31, at March 1, at June 1, at October 30, at February 9, at Leave a Reply Cancel reply Your email address will not be published. Read TTAG In Your Language: High School Student Suspended for Disarming Gunman. My Long Road to Gun Nuttery. Avatars by Sterling Adventures. Resources and links About Us Advertise Contact us. Privacy Policy RSS Feed Write For Us.

Springfield Armory M1A in a USGI Surplus M14 Stock

Springfield Armory M1A in a USGI Surplus M14 Stock m14 stock options

5 thoughts on “M14 stock options”

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